i wish i was a neutron bomb, for once I could go off. - eddie vedder

Tuesday, January 25, 2005

Back to the Ancient Future

Let me bring you up to speed. There is this new philosophy that is kind of postmoderny that is being referred to as “ancient future”. You see it a lot in worship circles and it translates a lot into theology on ones personal walk. My understanding of the basic premise of the idea is that people today are hungry for the foundation that the church was built upon. They love our new methods, but need the stability of a religion that has been around of a couple thousand years. In ancient future circles you will see more hymns in worship. You may catch people studying the writings of the ancient theologians such as Brother Lawrence, or even as far back as Augustine. I have been putting a lot of time and thought into this movement, and I am not sure exactly where I fall in regards to it. Let me be clear – I have no problem if it works for you, I am just not sure that I buy into it. Here are a few reasons why:

1. It has never worked for me. I can honestly say that I have never had an intimate worship time to a hymn. I am not saying that it cannot happen, I would not put God into a box that way. It could happen, I just find hymns to be to wordy and archaic in language. When compared to the worship songs of today, they require too much theology to understand how one ought to worship. I feel like I spend my whole time interpreting the meaning, and not giving the Lord his due glory. The books of old have yet to work for me as well. Maybe I am just a little dense but I feel like it takes too much thought to comprehend their meaning. I am a plain meaning kind of a guy.

2. The church of old had major problems. The church today is by no means pure, not even in comparison. My thought though is that there is a reason that the church is the way it looks today. It is because the practices of old were replaced by more effective ones. A little bit of the past is ok in our services, but we must remember things like hymns evolved into what we know today because the newer songs were more effective. We did not become what we are today by accident.

3. The most important reason for having a hard time with the ancient future movement is that it lacks something. That thing namely is the power of the Holy Spirit. Tragically the Holy Spirit and it’s miraculous power were not the mainstream in church for thousands of years. It was clearly present in the early church, which we can see in scripture, but it somehow tapered off. This is not to say that believers did not have the Holy Spirit living within them. I am just explaining that his manifest presence is conspicuously missing for almost 18 centuries. The Holy Spirit was there, it was just rarely given a place in worship, or in groups of believers all together. These ancient future principle do not take into account the fact that Jesus himself said that we would do even greater things than he did. Not until the Pentecostal revival of the early 1900s did we find our way again. I for one refuse to let this power fade. The teachers of old, along with the songs of old, have little if any space for the most powerful tool of all for ministry – the Holy Spirit.

I think this ancient future church has to go into Jimmy’s picture from his site. It crosses out the phrases – be the emerging church, be the post modern church, be the gen x church. Finally it says in bold print – be the church. That is what this is all about. Lets quit with the idea that people on the outside might like us more if they could only hear ancient future worship. Lets cross that one out and just be the church. None of our ideas are working so hot. Lets just be who we are, and when I speak for myself I can tell you that I am man after god, and empowered by the holy spirit.

7 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Thomas, I notice you're up pretty late tonight too! One thing I'd like to say about this old church stuff. I think it is important to acknowledge that what has existed in the past may have been what was effective then. I don't think that we're better and that our worship etc. has improved (sorry that goes against your whole mission statement). It's just changed, like the world has changed. I DO think it is important to have change because otherwise we would not be relevant (sorry couldn't think of another word) to the rest of the world that's not at church. Different, yes. Better, I'm not so sure. Just more fitting for this age.

1:22 AM

 
Blogger Thomas said...

What I mean by improve and increase the worship of God is strictly on a individual level, not in a liturgical one. It has nothing to do with the quality of worship services, but the quality of worship in peoples lives. I want to improve that, meaning, seeing people worship the Lord more in their own times, in their day to day life rather than just in church. The increase comes in when more people fall in love with God. They then become worshippers, increasing the amount of worship God receives. I should have said that more clearly. My mission statement - to improve and increase the worship of God - could be translated - to encourage more people to bring more worship to God. You are right, they are not better today, just more effective, better for our time. thanks for the comment

8:59 AM

 
Blogger .justin said...

A quote from Thomas' original post concerning the BIG H.S.: "Not until the Pentecostal revival of the early 1900s did we find our way again. I for one refuse to let this power fade." | Thomas, in what ways in the last week have you "moved" in the power of the Holy Spirit that you are NOT letting fade? (beyond, personal prayer, message preperation, etc.) outside things, miraculous things, do more than Jesus did things, pentacostal revival of the early 1900s things? I'd love to hear about them. I feel that I am missing those things in my Christian life here as a pastor at first BAPTIST church. I'd like to hear about some encouraging stories of where the holy spirit has done powerful and even miraculous things through you. I haven't prayed, REALL PRAYED, for someone to be healed in over a year, but I used to do it all the time and people would get healed. I'm such a wussy and weak Christian now when I don't "excercise" my faith like I used to! | I never thought of the "middle church" to be lacking the Holy Spirit's power, but now that I think about it, it was full of theologians, corruption, and wars. christian wars... hmmm... yes, we have become the ancient future church: dang it!

9:04 AM

 
Blogger jimmy said...

Quote from Thomas' original post: "The teachers of old, along with the songs of old, have little if any space for the most powerful tool of all for ministry – the Holy Spirit."

Do you really believe that Thomas?

I'm one of those guys who enjoy hymns, and reading the works of some of the fathers of the faith. I enjoy reading the writings of Brother Lawrence, Martin Luther, St. Augustine, Smith Wigglesworth, Oswald Chambers and others and I find the Holy Spirit stirring something in me when I read them. As for the songs, personally I like it when I have to think about what I'm singing. Sometimes I feel like the Holy Spirit reveals something to me when I'm really pondering what an old hymn writer meant when they penned their songs. I can barely stomach some of the newer choruses that have become huge praise and worship "hit songs". The song that comes to mind has a chorus that goes like this, "yes Lord, yes Lord, yes yes Lord, yes Lord, yes Lord, yes yes Lord, yes Lord, yes Lord, yes yes Lord amen." So the whole chorus has a GRAND TOTAL of three words. That song makes me furious...... you know why? I bet you that non christians look at us bouncing around and singing those three words and thinks, "those lazy christians, that's the best they could come up with?"

Our God is a creative God, he gave us brains, we should use them. If we are too lazy to put some thought into the songs we are singing to Him then shame on us.

4:39 PM

 
Blogger Thomas said...

I am happy with the response that I got so far from this post. To keep the debate going, yes I do believe just about everything that I said in my original post. I am not saying that the Holy Spirit cannot work through an ancient future style. I guess you could say the tag on the top of my blog is ancient future, because it is a quote from wigglesworth. The holy Spirit can use anything he wants to use. I am not here to put God in a box. I am just saying that given my druthers I prefer new school to old school. I am not a fan of that "old time rock and roll". Those things are extremly valuable for study and personal enrichment, but as far as our services go, I think there are more effective ways to deliver the truth, than these ways that I would consider antiquated.

As for songs that make you go nuts, I can see you are going with the classic darrell evans tune, trading my sorows. I say classic very loosly. Truth is that I hav had an experience with that song though. It feels good sometimes to say yes lord over and over and over again. I can't say the same for many of the hymns that have found favor in many a church lately. I feel like I spend too much time translating them into terms that I can understand, and when I finally get that done, there is little time left for an encounter. Maybe I am just dense. I like my songs simple, because I think that worship is for the church. Straight up. What an unbeliever would think of trading my sorrows, it sucks that they wouldn't like it, but it is nothing abut a tool to draw people into worship, therefore an unbeliever can't even use the song properly. My real qualm here with this is the people making it into a "hit" song when that should not be it's purpose. It is about as intelligible as a nursery rhyme, yet people rock out to it in their cars when it's on the radio. Again this is not the function of a worship song (even though I know the author has allowed for it to be played in this way)
My point is that we still serve the most creative being in the universe. Our attitude can't be, well I can't come up with anything good, and all the other current stuff sucks so lets just play with the old stuff. Lets get on our knees antil we are given the creative juice that the Lord wants to give us. I am not a fan of that old time rock and roll

7:51 PM

 
Blogger jimmy said...

quote from Thomas' response: "it is nothing but a tool to draw people into worship, therefore an unbeliever can't even use the song properly. "

What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand.

10:53 AM

 
Blogger Thomas said...

Worship by definition is something that can only believers can do. How could somebody worship that in which they do not believe? that is why I say that the function of a worship song can only truly be experienced by believers. Hope that makes sense.

10:55 PM

 

Post a Comment

<< Home